Thomas,
Thanks for the Best Answer to your question and in response to your comments, I would love to discuss matters of faith any time you like. You may be surprised (or disappointed) to know that I have been (a) born again Christian THREE times in my youth but I kept finding Christianity too hard to maintain a belief in.
First off was the idea that I saw kids doing bad things and saying "it's okay, I'm saved."
My second disillusionment was the idea that "do unto others" is a form of abuse, as in "figure out what other people need and give it to them whether they want it or not." That is pretty much how I interact with folks on YAP, treating them as I want to be treated, and they are appalled because the golden rule is a formula for abuse. Luckily I am not a Christian so I don't try to pretend that it is anything but a psychological purge, doing what I think is best for others. It would require more humility than I have to say "God doesn't want me to 'Do unto others' God wants me to leave them the heck alone." Luckily you have the bible to blame for following this abusive rule.
Thirdly, when I got re-involved with religion in my twenties, I got a glimpse of the worldly money and power aspect of Christianity, and it freaked me the hell out. I kept telling myself "it's the message, not the messenger" but it was like being Alice in Wonderland trying to pretend everything was normal.
I have known many great Christians who have been models of goodness and humility. I have also known good Hindus who would give a stranger the shirt off their backs. I have known religious Jews who were models of generosity and tolerance. I have frankly known charitable and gentle Satanists (not the atheist kind, the voodoo-y "I can do magic" kind. Frankly I have a tremendous respect for the power of good in faith, just not any interest in anyone's religion.
When I was in college, I read about Taoism and thought nothing of it. Then I read a silly little book by a guy named Benjamin Hoff called "The Tao of Pooh" (Taoism as explained by Winnie the Pooh) and it changed my life. I had always hated Pooh growing up as he represented stupid and lazy to me. It was my earliest training to impose myself on the world whether mechanically, like my dad, or verbally like my mom. I had no real idea that you could accept the world AS IS without imposing values on it, like sin or karma or salvation, the eight-fold path, the Ten Commandments or the five pillars of Islam.
I am happy to just be in the world, and as I do not fear any afterlife, salvation, and hellfire neither interest nor terrify me. I believe we are our own hell and the world as it is is heaven enough if I just get out of my own way.
So yeah, I am sure your personal journey is equally if not more compelling, and like me, you are not looking for a new religion. But I also don't think you are going to hell for not believing in the Tao (things as they are) so this imperative on your part may somewhat mess up our dynamic.
Sorry to run on so long. Your turn.
Harry
*PS: If I believed that folks who didn't accept Jesus were going to burn for all eternity I would be pretty anxious to convince them too. Its not the motive but the message I am at odds with.
Thanks for the Best Answer to your question and in response to your comments, I would love to discuss matters of faith any time you like. You may be surprised (or disappointed) to know that I have been (a) born again Christian THREE times in my youth but I kept finding Christianity too hard to maintain a belief in.
First off was the idea that I saw kids doing bad things and saying "it's okay, I'm saved."
My second disillusionment was the idea that "do unto others" is a form of abuse, as in "figure out what other people need and give it to them whether they want it or not." That is pretty much how I interact with folks on YAP, treating them as I want to be treated, and they are appalled because the golden rule is a formula for abuse. Luckily I am not a Christian so I don't try to pretend that it is anything but a psychological purge, doing what I think is best for others. It would require more humility than I have to say "God doesn't want me to 'Do unto others' God wants me to leave them the heck alone." Luckily you have the bible to blame for following this abusive rule.
Thirdly, when I got re-involved with religion in my twenties, I got a glimpse of the worldly money and power aspect of Christianity, and it freaked me the hell out. I kept telling myself "it's the message, not the messenger" but it was like being Alice in Wonderland trying to pretend everything was normal.
I have known many great Christians who have been models of goodness and humility. I have also known good Hindus who would give a stranger the shirt off their backs. I have known religious Jews who were models of generosity and tolerance. I have frankly known charitable and gentle Satanists (not the atheist kind, the voodoo-y "I can do magic" kind. Frankly I have a tremendous respect for the power of good in faith, just not any interest in anyone's religion.
When I was in college, I read about Taoism and thought nothing of it. Then I read a silly little book by a guy named Benjamin Hoff called "The Tao of Pooh" (Taoism as explained by Winnie the Pooh) and it changed my life. I had always hated Pooh growing up as he represented stupid and lazy to me. It was my earliest training to impose myself on the world whether mechanically, like my dad, or verbally like my mom. I had no real idea that you could accept the world AS IS without imposing values on it, like sin or karma or salvation, the eight-fold path, the Ten Commandments or the five pillars of Islam.
I am happy to just be in the world, and as I do not fear any afterlife, salvation, and hellfire neither interest nor terrify me. I believe we are our own hell and the world as it is is heaven enough if I just get out of my own way.
So yeah, I am sure your personal journey is equally if not more compelling, and like me, you are not looking for a new religion. But I also don't think you are going to hell for not believing in the Tao (things as they are) so this imperative on your part may somewhat mess up our dynamic.
Sorry to run on so long. Your turn.
Harry
*PS: If I believed that folks who didn't accept Jesus were going to burn for all eternity I would be pretty anxious to convince them too. Its not the motive but the message I am at odds with.
